old_hand

It's a long article about Mount Everest and about the Khumbu, published last weekend.

Some people here may take an interest: "Conservationists campaign to close Everest"

Link => Should Everest be closed?

Tourism is turning the world's highest peak into its biggest rubbish dump, claim conservationists, who are pressing for controls on climbing. But will this cost sherpas their livelihood? Dan McDougall in Kathmandu reports on the campaign

'When Sir Edmund has said he wanted the mountain closed or visits limited, the last thing he wants is for the sherpas to lose their livelihoods, but we in the trust strongly believe that not just Everest but the whole of the Khumba Valley needs a sustained rest. These villages have become enormously wealthy by local standards, but along the trail towards Everest there are now restaurants and cyber cafes and bars, and this just doesn't seem right.'

Mountains under threat

Mt Blanc, France

Tianshan, China

Kilimanjaro, Tanzania

Yeah, it's really disturbing to see the british isles appearing in the Arctic ice cap in the august 2006 image.

My fault, I guess. I assumed people would click one or two of the links.

This is what it says below the picture in the MSNBC article:

Leif Toudal Pedersen / ESA

A color-coded image from the EOS Aqua satellite shows ice thickness in the Arctic. Red and pink indicate 100 percent ice concentration. Yellow, orange and green indicate fissures and openings in the ice. The outline of the British Isles is superimposed over the picture to provide a sense of scale.

With this being the explanation given by Die Zeit:

Eiskalter Schrecken: Die linke Satellitenaufnahme zeigt die Eiskonzentration um den Nordpol (schwarzes Loch) am 24. August 2005. Pinke Flächen sind vollständig vom Eis bedeckt. Rechts daneben der Zustand der Arktis am 23. August 2006. Insbesondere im Bild rechts und unten kann man die massiven Verluste in der Eisdecke erkennen, die binnen eines einzigen Jahres erfolgten.

©Polar View/Leif Toudal Pedersen

The British Isles are in the image to give a better idea of the scale of this development; not everyone has a fairly good idea of the size of it all. Hence the British Isles-drawing.

You knew, didn't you? You have a dislike for the Brits by any chance? Would you have preferred to see Norway there instead? Well, just as long as you don't ask for China...

.

August 2005 . . . . compared to . . . . August 2006

Schwindsüchtige Arktis - Die Zeit

Greenland ice sheet melting faster: study - Reuters

Satellite views show big gaps in Arctic ice - MSNBC.com

Frightening idea. Humans (people) will try to adapt and survive such BIG changes, but what about the animals?

Such as the polar bears who are having an ever decreasing territory, ever more trouble to survive and with some of them actually drowning...

The Poles - Polar bear attacks: A good reason to choose Antarctica instead of the Arctic

.

Hi Kjiver, hi Lyngve,

Yes, I agree it's a big, big shame. And for Nepal too if this goes on, because in the meantime some agencies have started to behave rather unfriendly, if not rude, on a few travelboards.

(I'll be the first to admit that some trekkers and myself as well haven't been very polite either lately on these boards all the time, but nevertheless). It seems that quite a number of the real "established, well-to-do" Kathmandu agencies don't care the least about independent trekkers. In fact, some begin suggesting that they don't care at all if the independent trekkers would as of now stay away:

Raj, of Thirdpole, to yakshaver on YetiZone

part of an e-mail from mr. Tank Prasad Ojha to Andrées de Ruiter, in Germany, who mailed a great many contacts in view of tourism in Nepal to speak of his worries and disagreement with the new TRC/TAAN rules. And that part of the e-mail now shown on YetiZone, really isn't the worst part of the whole mail. It's odd: Mr. Ojha is no trekking agent yet claims to be a Geoscientist and Project Research Coordinator of the Himalayan Tibet Research Group of a University in Arizona (United States). Why is he so much against independent trekking in the Himalayas? Afraid that trekkers will steal the mountains away?

The Petition, by the way, now has 482 confirmed signatures!, also thanks to the participation/support from Fjellforum members/readers!

Hi all

Lóvely thread: the reports, the many photos!

And Gunnar, I want to thank you for you've made my day with that photo of the dog (I presume) at "Marco e Rosa-hytta"!

I've seldom seen a picture só beautiful: the animal, the composition, and the colours...

Thánk you for sharing it here!

^ ^ ^

up you go

387 signatures up till now: LINK

No discussion here, which is not really surprising since Fjellforum's main focus is of course not trekking in Nepal. But over on other travelboards for trekking in Nepal's Himalayas, unfortunately it's really one, big, sad mess of discussions, confusions and irritations: mainly because nobody manages to make the Nepalese authorities give clear, solid information on what to expect as of October 1.

If any marketing school wants to study a clear example of "how do I kill a part of my tourism industry?", they should study the implementation of the TRC in Nepal this fall...

Following Ragnar's post about Satelitte-phones and Emergency Beacons, and in respect of general discussion about travelling (hiking) alone.

Here is another idea in respect of improving safety, by using a device for communication with the outside world: Safety text

Note: I'm amazed, if not shocked, to read on its present homepage now that the system would be temporarily "off-air" due to a kind of upgrading. If that means that for a few days the whole Safety Text-system is down, that surely is bad news and a sign of amateurism, I think, that's unforgiveable with these type of security services. Other parts of the website don't seem to be kept updated, so I don't know what's going on with the organisation. But the idea of "Safety Text", its technical specs and so on, sounded magnificent.

I came to learn about Safety Text last year, through a publication in The Scotsman of April 18, 2005 that is no longer online. Safety Text is a system whereby you can let your folks or friends know in advance where you'll be going and for how long. But if you don't activate any codes in time to let them know you're back / okay / all is fine, an alarm goes off - anywhere in the world - to tell f.e. parents or a friend that there may be something wrong with the Safety Text-user and they're activated to check out your situation.

A few related links:

=> Father of Lucie Blackman creates safety text service

"Hopes to protect teens and travellers" (networks.silicon.com 5 July 2004)

The service, called Safetytext, will allow users to send a message to a nominated recipient with all the details of where they're going, with whom and when they expect to be back.

The text is delayed for between 30 minutes and 24 hours, according to what the user wants, and if the text isn't cancelled, the details are delivered to the recipient – giving them and the authorities a head start in tracking down the missing person.

=> Rethinking Drinking, in a College Online Magazine of March 2006

=> "Safety Text", on Leicester News (undated article)

www.safetytext.com is a delayed message system that allows you to send a confidential text to say where you are going and with whom. The text is then held at the secure website for a number of hours, and when you return safely, you are able to cancel it. You decide how long to delay the message, from 30 minutes to 24 hours. You will receive a cancellation reminder 30 mins before it is sent. If you don't, or can't cancel it, the text is forwarded to your "buddy number" giving vital information to help find you. If your phone works abroad so will Safetytext.

Register for the service on line at www.safetytext.com to activate an account. Each Safetytext is charged at 50p on a pay as you go basis or 33p if you pre-pay.

This may have been developed more towards teenagers and young adults participating in "city life". However, I can imagine that it's a system that - perhaps with some modifications - could very well be used by trekkers and hikers in remote parts of a country as well.

In view of the present situation with the Safety Text-website,

let's keep an eye on developments in that organisation!

=> Link to the PETITION on Trekkingforum.com

Full text:

Welcome to Trekkingpetition.Nepal.Site

http://trekkingpetition.nepal.st

TAAN (Trekking Agents Association of Nepal) has set up new rules for trekking in Nepal. It contains the implementation of a Trekking Registration Certificate (TRC) to prevent unofficial travel agencies, freelancer guides, travel-organising hotels, foreign guides etc. from organising and guiding foreign trekkers in Nepal. It also includes substantial improvements concerning safety and recording.

As these are good improvements we support the new TRC. But it also means that you will be obliged to trek with a registered guide from an agency. You are not allowed to trek on your own any more. Even if you know your way, even if you are an experienced trekker, even if you have trekked around Annapurna several times.

The TRC will be available for buying at registered trekking agencies in Kathmandu and Pokhara. We strongly ask to allow individual trekkers buying a TRC and set off for their trek individually! Please support us and sign!

SIGN OUR PETITION

View Signatures

TRC

Links & Banners

Tell a friend

There are concerns that the implementation of the Trekking Registration Certificate (TRC) means the ban of individual organised trekking in Nepal.

Although the idea of a TRC is a good one, is must not mean that you would be forced to hire guide and porters from a registered trekking agency. If one wants to trek on his own, carry his own backpack and set off, one should be able to buy this TRC from an agency and to do so!

That's what we are asking you to sign for.

Supported by these forums:

Trekkingforum.com

more sites

Promote it in your forum by opening a thread and discussing the issue by linking to

http://trekkingpetition.nepal.st or by placing a banner and get listed here!

This topic is new to this board, but heavily discussed on several other travelboards ever since mid July.

BACKGROUND

Nepal announced the introduction of a Trekking Registration Certificate (TRC), to be obtained through government-authorized trekking agencies only, implying the need to tell in advance exactly where you'll be going, and POSSIBLY also implying that as of October 1st people cannot

a] hire their own guide and/or porter(s) anymore, and

b] are not allowed anymore to trek (hike) alone ("independently").

This "alone" not necessarily meaning alone = solo, but: without officially registered trekkingguides. Example: also a pair or a group (with or without many previous years of Nepal trekking experiences) would violate the law if they set out on the trails nót accompanied by registered personnel. Behaviour that could, legally, lead to heavy fines and (at least theoretically) even to imprisonment of the foreign trekker(s).

The latter, the "independent trekking issue" is still very much in discussion, also inside Nepal it seems.

There is absolutely no clarity to what will happen as of October 1, or even where these TRC's can be bought and where not. Foreign trekkers who are - without a TRC - IN the mountains on October 1 already and scheduled to descend only after that date, have no idea if they can be fined in that situation. People (foreign trekkers) who've contacted the TAAN or the NTB (Nepal Tourism Board) over the past month, received contradictory answers to many questions. And they never received clear answers re. independent trekking. In terms of information, it's one, big mess.

There are many among the foreign and experienced Nepal trekkers who feel the whole thing as a powergrab and a money-grab from Kathmandu, which will result in the non-organised guides and porters losing all their business and income. So of course there is great opposition against these news rules, on many travelboards. Although the idea to monitor trekkers for safety reasons, is of course appreciated. But it's hard to understand how effective that will all be. And why would only the travelagencies that are members of the Trekking Agents Association of Nepal (TAAN) "benefit"? Not really in terms of money (the new TRC is said to cost some NR 250), but because all their other colleagues/competitors would be out of business in one, big blow...

So for those here on Fjellforum who didn't know yet and think they may be affected by these new laws, here are a few links to discussions elsewhere on Nepal, its TAAN and its TRC. And this post will be followed by the text of a PETITION for independent trekking, launched by the webmaster of the Austrian/German Trekkingforum yesterday.

Some background/discussion elsewhere (English & German):

YetiZone, 1 - YetiZone, 2

Trekinfo, 1 - Trekinfo, 2

Thorn Tree, 1 - Thorn Tree, 2 - Thorn Tree, 3

Trekkingforum, 1 - Trekkingforum, 2 - Trekkingforum, 3 "TRC - Petition für Individualtrekking "

Text of the official TAAN Press Release regarding the TRC

So to those of you here who agree that the introduction of trekkers permits

should nót mean the end of independent trekking: PLEASE SIGN THE PETITION !

.

In respect of satphones, here are links & quotes re. some fairly new articles on Mounteverest.net.

I hope you don't mind they're added here; I don't know if this is plain "advertising", and moreover I haven't really looked in the Terms of Use of Fjellforum re. (somewhat) commercial postings. I'm just intrigued that for not more than 130 grams, you can carry a genuine satellitephone with you. I think they used to be a whole lot heavier, and probably bigger too.

http://www.mounteverest.net/news.php?id=14945

The world's smallest Satellite phone makes world's first high-speed Internet connection

11:42 am EST Aug 23, 2006

At 130 gr, it's the world's smallest Satellite phone and last week, Thuraya made a high-speed Internet connection through it. It was the world's first such call and yet another feat for the rapidly expanding company. Thuraya's second generation phones will become a new favorite with Himalayan expeditions and limited numbers of the SO-2510 were introduced to the market recently ahead of its full commercial launch in September. They are now available at HumanEdgeTech.

Browse the Internet and download files over GPRS

Wednesday, Project Manager Ahmed Mansoor Al Abd and his team made the first successful 'packet call' on the SO-2510 handset (packet call refers to the data transmission technology known as GPRS, or General Packet Radio Service).

http://www.mounteverest.net/news.php?id=14951

The new generation of adventure smart phones: A closer look at Thuraya SO-2510

10:58 am EST Aug 25, 2006

(HumanEdgeTech.com) At 130 gr, it's the world's smallest Satellite phone. Limited numbers of the SO-2510 were introduced to the market recently ahead of its full commercial launch in September and are now available at HumanEdgeTech. Thuraya's second generation phones will become a big favorite with Himalayan expeditions - but what are they, exactly? Here go the cool details.

Position

The satellite phone has GPS with altitude built into it. We tried it in US and it picked up correct location within a minute. Waypoints can be stored and you can set automatic download intervals from 10 seconds to 1 hour.

Mars Rover, Color screen and high-speed GPRS

The SO-2510 has a nice 65,000 color display and a very intuitive and easy to navigate menu running on VXWORKS; a fast and popular OS used also on the Mars Rover.

The data speed is 9.6kb/s as with the old model, but the phone is ready for the introduction of packet data GPRS later this year. The GPRS traffic will allow for 60kb/s download and 15kb/s up.

The size of a standard cell phone

The new SO-2510 is manufactured by South Korean APSI. The world's smallest satellite phone by far, it weighs in only at one third of an Iridium and almost half of the old Thuraya. The dimensions are 118 x 53 x 18.8 mm (140mm with antenna), virtually the size of a standard cell phone.

Cho Oyu climbers first test pilots

The unit is fairly solid but needs to be protected in extreme conditions. The problems of the data cable connections are hopefully solved with a new USB to Thuraya data cable that snaps nicely in place.

As the two new models won't released to the general market until next month, no first hand reports from users have been available. HumanEdgeTech clients are taking the first units for their upcoming climbs on Cho Oyu and the first feedback from the peak is expected to arrive in September.

[. . .]

Increasing dominance in Himalaya

The light handhelds combined with relatively fast data and cheap air time have made the Thuraya system very popular with Himalayan climbers and trekkers in only a few short years. The new units will add to the system's increasing dominance in Himalaya and beyond.

[. . .]

- HET has provided technology for hundreds of non-techie adventurers moving in the world's most extreme locations and operating under very difficult conditions; but also to trekkers, media, relief workers and the military.

Will add another link/article regarding a safety device for travellers/hikers a little later; I don't know if it's still online, so it may take some searching/surfing.

I guess so too Tom, in the first place because - as far as I know - nobody ever reported seeing her anymore. And from the accounts of her arrival in Lom and later in Spiterstulen with her trip to Galdhøpiggen, she seemed to be a woman who would easily make some contact and chat a bit with people she would meet on a trail. And they would remember her...

By the way, it doesn't really surprise me she turned back halfway during the attempt to climb Galdhøpiggen. I mean, it can't be thát easy - Galdhøpiggen - if a real Khumbu-Sherpa was employed for many years as a guide on that mountain, the tallest mountain in northern Europe.

Ang Dorjee has been to the top of the world 11 times, where temperatures at 29,035 feet on Mount Everest easily reach minus 100 degrees with the wind chill.

No need to feel ashamed or in bad shape if you don't manage to reach the summit of Galdhøpiggen,

if you ask me...

Besseggen (so the rather spectacular Besseggen Ridge) was - according to information that later emerged from The Netherlands (see the other, long thread) - indeed on her itinerary. Not so strange, of course, considering that this was her first visit ever to Jotunheimen.

It seems to me that you are assuming she had an accident while on her way still, from Spiterstulen, towards the Besseggen Ridge (or "direction south-east"). And there is no evidence, it seems, that - on the contrary - she was on her way back towards Leirvassbu or Spiterstulen/Lom already. A week later (on Saturday) she was expected in Oslo. Maybe it wouldn't have made sense at all to return nórth, and leave Jotunheimen again via Lom if you could leave it on its southern side as well (and travel to Oslo).

It's none of our business I'm afraid, but it would certainly be interesting to determine just about whén (meaning a date) this accident happened. Also because "we" here are not sure at all if she knew anything in advance about huts still being closed and the absence of a number of bridges.

In that respect I'm reminded of Ragnar's reply in the other thread, his technical reply regarding cellphones and the electronic traces that they can leave behind. It was the first thing that the Lom police announced: that they were checking out any possible "electronic evidence" or "traces" (cellphone, creditcard). Taking into account the lack of coverage for the mobile phones in Jotunheimen in a great many places, perhaps they've still been able to establish a bit of her whereabouts.

On the other hand, their search-pattern (and the pattern re. search-area's that the Dutch covered a little while later) seems to indicate that she was never believed to have reached an area really far away from Spiterstulen. Walking the Besseggen Ridge itself, I suppose (but that's mere speculation re. the altitude) would probably gain contact again with the cellphone network. Next question: what type of cellphone did she have, what batteries, what age, and how long would it be detectable with the batteries not being re-charged (no electricity around)? A related question: she probably had a watch, but did it show dates as well and was it waterproof? You see, so many questions and police will now have several answers re. such facts, but what is the use? There must be só many potentially dangerous spots on all those trails, especially when you start climbing or whenever you would try to cross a river, all alone.

Being no medical expert nor a Jotunheimen expert, what I want to say is this: Apparently the press was informed that the most likely cause of death was drowning. So let's take that information for a fact. It seems that if people drown, their lungs will be filled with water. But if they die before their body somehow "arrives" in the water (due to whatever reasons), it seems that a pathologist can see the difference. Because even when people are fully unconscious, they will still keep breathing. That activity is controlled by "the most primary" part of our brains: breathing.

In this case, with the possible situation of accidentally sliding from a high-up mountaintrail and falling very deep down and into the lake, maybe at least in theory it would be hard to tell (at an autopsy). Headinjuries sustained during a fall, are not necessarily fatal instantly. Yet for no specific reasons (it's just a feeling) I would not be surprised if the victim's relatives really want to leave it at this.

This is not meant to discourage any further discussion here. Certainly not. It's just that on another (travel)board we're presently still dealing with the grief, the immense frustrations and the anger of a relative of another woman who - in the Himalayas - fell from an icy and very slippery trail to her death several hundreds of meters earlier this year (March). She too hiked alone. And I'm impressed, and saddened, by the impact of such tragedies on the close relatives (friends, colleagues) of people who died that way: on a lovely holiday, in the beautfiful mountains. I hope you'll understand. And I hope you won't take this as "criticism" on the way this thread is developing, because that isn't my intention. I take a great interest in forensic investigation, logic, and such things. In Marijke's case it seems that there is no suspicion at all of any possible foul play. And I guess the main lesson, for everyone, is again that it's potentially extra dangerous to make such (hiking) journeys all on your own...

@old_hand: added your picture in the posting, as I think you ment to do. Hope it's ok.

I must confess I don't quite understand what you're referring to Ragnar, as the photo of Muru ending into Lake Gjende still has its original URL at present. But it's late here meanwhile, and whatever you decide to do: it's okay. And thank you.

With all due respect, but though "my Norwegian" certainly has improved, it would be far too risky to interpret everything the two of you said in here (Tom & El Gringo). At the same time though, I am aware this has all been a matter for the Lom police, and they don't need my opinion.

I've read comments this past week on a great many messageboards, newssites and forums, comments regarding where the body was discovered. Many comments are from people who wonder why tourists decide to visit environments like Jotunheimen all alone. There's a lot of (cheap) criticism in that respect. And the best explanations I found were the comments made by Sam in the other thread here, and one on a Dutch messageboard where somebody simply asked: "what if you don't have anyone else to accompany you?"

And that is true.

I understand many people who know Jotunheimen well, think she may have tried to cross the river Muru.

Therefore, here is a photo (of mid-July 1995) of the place where Muru finds it way into the Gjende Lake...

Nothing will ever bring her back alive. But to think she loved travelling and that she "lived her dreams" by going to Norway, dying in a place as beautiful and "real" - meaning authentic "Mother Nature" - as Jotunheimen may perhaps bring at least a little consolation to those who miss her so dearly.

original source of the photo

edited because the photo is now hosted elsewhere, to avoid stealing bandwith

Picture is removed because it is copyrighted by another party, and unless poster can prove approval from the photograph, posting of the image is not allowed.

Photo-link of the coffin being brought ashore a week ago =in here=.

Such a quiet sea (lake). Very difficult to comprehend that someone could drown in that lake, someone who can swim. Though the water temperature will generally be quite low, too low to survive a long stay in the water. And it's different of course with the very, very fast moving waters of the mountainrivers, when the snow is melting.

This seems to close the case.

Hi Sam, yes: it seems that way. And I'm assuming that her relatives will by now be making preparations for a closure ceremony, at home.

The Gudbrandsdølen Dagningen put a few more newsreports online ever since the discovery of the body a week ago. But as usual they're all archived meanwhile, so there's no point in posting links. Apparently someone found a hiking shoe ("fjellsko") on August 3rd and in the area ( ".....ikke langt fra Gjende, fant jeg en fjellsko som tydeligvis var skyllet på land. Skoen var delvis full av sand, men den var ikke gammel eller slitt. Størrelsen på skoen tilsa at det kunne være en kvinnesko."), and he contacted the police over his find. But "my Norwegian" isn't good enough to understand what, acc. to the article, Steinar Angard said regarding the shoe. If it belonged to Marijke, the spot where it was found may say something about the most likely area/place where she drowned.

And it does look - at least to me - as if many posters here with a lot of Jotunheimen-experience were right from the start: that, since she was hiking alone, there was a realistic risk of drowning if she would try to cross a glacierstream that time of the year.

Susanne, one of the other posters in this thread, e-mailed me to tell of her own experience six years ago somewhere in Norway, when she had to cross a wild mountainriver yet barely survived... She was on her own as well, and the discovery last week of the body that turned out to be Marijke's really "shook" Susanne again. Also because all of her own, frightening memories of that event, returned.

Susanne gave room to her strong thoughts and feelings last week by making a painting, a painting inspired by this tragedy with Marijke Vervoort. She sent me a scan by e-mail. It's moving, and beautiful. And then we wondered if perhaps Marijke's parents would appreciate seeing it, at any time in future. So since there are no contactdetails to contact them directly, I've done so via two people who are in contact with them. Naturally I hope that Susanne will receive a reaction.

In many online places (travelboards, websites, newssites) with postings or the latest news about Marijke Vervoort, people meanwhile expressed their condolences to her relatives, her friends and her colleagues in Rotterdam. I hope her relatives will somehow receive all those messages. After all, they were posted for them in the first place.

And with all the reactions since last week, a Dutch guy mailed me also on behalf of a few fellow-travellers from the U.K., the US and from Australia together with whom Marijke wandered through Bolivia some time ago. A holiday where they all had great fun, and he included a happy picture of all five of them - including Marijke - travelling in a jeep across Bolivia. The group sent their condolences by e-mail and with that photo. So to make sure their e-mail indeed reaches the relatives, I've forwarded it to the team at the Venray (Holland) policeforce that were in charge of this missing person "case". Got a confirmation from them shortly afterwards that they'll take proper care of that well-intended e-mail.

It's an enormous shame that with all this global backpacking and global travel and people going on holiday alone into potentially dangerous environments such as Jotunheimen (dangerous by its nature, not because of crimes or anything), we kéép losing very promising young adults to all sorts of accidents. Accidents or more importantly their deaths, that could perhaps have been prevented if they wouldn't have been alone, with no immediate help around. That's not just my personal opinion, it's an opinion several SAR-contacts expressed to me over e-mail lately. People who are professionally dealing with these kind of disappearances in popular traveldestinations worldwide.

In that sense the country of Nepal - home of Mount Everest and many other Himalayan peaks - is busy to implement a trekking registration certificate, and permit-system whereby solo trekkers will be discouraged to go out there all alone. Or at least the idea is that they will be better monitored, so in case they don't show up where they should arrive the next day, an alarm can be raised much sooner and a searchparty organised. It's not fully clear yet, also to the government of Nepal, what this system will look like exactly and what the additional costs will be. But I'm expecting you'll hear (more) about it in the not so far future.

Words fail me, to be honest.

It's what you hópe for, every day again. It's what so many people have wórked for so hard: to try and find the missing woman báck. But then if one day it suddenly happens and it happens this way, there is little consolation or even relief. Just sadness.

Among the many Dutch online newsmedia that started publicising this news on Sunday evening, there are a few only that say the Lom police would know for sure that the woman now found is Marijke Vervoort. But the majority tries to stay on the safe side by saying it is very well possible it concerns her indeed.

I imagine it will not take long before the identification procedures are concluded. And I'm thinking of her parents and the rest of her family and friends, and how they'll deal with the stress and shock of this sudden discovery.

Hi Ragnar, "long time, no see"

Frankly, I've always felt that this post of yours deserves a lot more attention. Because it's about mountains and safety/security, and the technical gadgets nowadays to help secure that safety....

But I'm really very very much under-educated about such technical issues, which is why it's no use at all for me to comment on what you posted here.

However, though I know that www.mounteverest.net is quite regularly mentioned on these boards here, I wonder if you were familiar f.e. with this 3-year old article?

http://www.criminology.fsu.edu/book/Taking%20Technology%20to%20Extremes.htm

It's from The New York Times, "Taking Technology to Extremes" (published in 2003). And watch the part about the Iridium versus the Thuraya phones.

So this is old, but I'm under the impression that - whether it's about Norway/Scandinavia or any other country - the Team at ExplorersWeb will know all the latest re. technical developments and improvements in the field of secure, wireless "beacons" and communications under heavy-duty circumstances. That is one of the major fields of their ongoing attention, and business. And I imagine you'll know how to contact them, in New York, if you'd have any questions or comments to discuss with them.

One thing is for sure: they're eager to help!

If you find one of your own relatives missing in Norway,

you schould engage a Norwegian Private Investigator who

will follow up every steps made by the local police and

work for others. Look up http://www.nopes.no

The Private Investigator will need some money in advance

to cover travell and stay at the actual location and a written permission

from the closest relatives.

Best regards

So...., would the general users of this forum agree with this opinion? That, after all that has been investigated and tried out by Norwegian police and rescue organisations and by a Dutch dog-team as well, the relatives should or should've engaged a Norwegian private detective?

I notice it's Etterforsker's only post on this board. Would that be a rather normal policy for Norway (considering the environment/nature), to hire a private investigator in case a foreign tourist went missing from an environment like Jotunheimen National Park?

Mind you: I've never heard of anyone no more apart from the webmaster of the Reddingshonden website. So I have no idea of the present situation, nor of the developments (or new clues) in Norway of the past approx. three weeks.

@ sam,

Gréat post, yours! So honest, and understandable. But what a great pity that being alone to experience mother nature in the most direct and intense ways, can also be such a big risk if things go wrong...

For your information; link will expire within a day or so. PM me for the full text (in Norwegian)

in that case if you want to read more about this news.

Gudbrandsdølen Dagningen - Går seg bom fast på Knutshø published on July 13.

Går seg bom fast på Knutshø

GÅR SEG FAST: På ett år har politiet og redningsmannskaper måttet hente ut fem personer fra Knutshø i Jotunheimen.

VÅGÅ: Tirsdag måtte ei kvinne fra Hadeland, som gikk sammen med ei venninne, hentes ut fra fjellet av luftambulansen. Hun hadde gått seg totalt fast på veg ned fra Knutshø.

- Pilen viser nå klart hvor turgåerne må gå. Likevel går enkelte motsatt veg i forhold til merkingen. Det var det som skjedde med kvinnen tirsdag, sier politiførstebetjent i Vågå, Tor Trønnes til GD.

Kvinnen ropte om hjelp, og ropene ble hørt av personer i ei hytte lenger nede. Disse varslet så politiet.

Sto bom fast

Kort tid før denne hendelsen, gikk to kvinner fra Heidal og Lillehammer seg bom fast ned fra Knutshø, som ligger 1.517 meter over havet mellom øvre og nedre Leirungen.

Kvinnene ble sittende på ei fjellhylle som var bare en kvadrat stor. Den ene av kvinnene prøvde å klatre opp igjen, men måtte gi seg. Akkurat det samme som skjedde sist tirsdag. De to kvinnene ble hentet ut av fjellet om natten, etter stor innsats av redningsmannskapene.

familiehund!

Dutch Shepherd dog, "short hair", in our livingroom a couple of years back when we had another motherless lamb to raise.

Sorry; couldn't resist the chance but I'll leave your forumthread alone now...

Rescuedog-team returned from search for Marijke Vervoort (in Dutch, L1: "Limburg live")

The Norwegian police will search for the body of Marijke Vervoort from Venray in a canyon in the natural reserve near Lom.

A Dutch team with rescuedogs reported the suspicious location to the Norwegian police. The dogs warned at a canyon ("ravine"). A member of the rescuedog-team does not want to give the Vervoort family false hope. Possibly the dogs reacted to something else than a human body, for example an animal. 26 Year old Marijke Vervoort disappeared early June in the Norwegian natural reserve.

July 10th, 2006 09:53 h.

It's not my aim to continue this thread only by posting copy&paste news-translations all the time.

But the above message is a good example to show how in fact not all searchefforts are over. And how, after the police in Lom shared all the relevant information with the Dutch team upon arrival, the Dutch in return do the same.

Just to confirm that all members of the RHWW-team including their four dogs arrived safely on Amsterdam airport this afternoon, where they were awaited by a number of their relatives, colleagues and other contacts.

It was nice meeting them and having a bit of a chat. And it was nice meeting their dogs.

Here they are again, a photo made in Norway a few days ago:

I'd like to say a little more here, but later, about dogs: dogs with that special talent - regardless of their breed - that you need for this work.

For now it's definitely véry tough for Marijke's relatives, friends and colleagues to cope with the reality that also all the efforts of the past week, did not bring her back. Something that's frustrating and "heavy" in its own way for the RHWW organisation too.

It seems that the snow is meanwhile melting quite rapidly in Jotunheimen. So who knows what the policeforce in Lom can achieve in this summer season.

Saturday 8th July: the 5th and final search-day

The final search-day has come to an end. Big frustration because we did not manage to find anything.

As announced, we have searched the last part of the way from Spiterstulen to the north. This was a road where the terrain alongside the road varied in width between 0 to 100 meters. This implied a constant adapting of the search-patterns. One moment everyone had to walk in line while the next moment required an entirely different position from eachother. However, it gave us the opportunity to work very efficiently and that is how we covered this area: very efficiently. The winds kept changing constantly, which forced us to adapt to the winds all the time too.

When the day was almost over, a number of the dogs showed a rising activity near a wood that went down towards the riverbank in a fairly steep manner (approx. 50 meters into the depth). The descent was too steep for the dogs and therefore too risky for them to be able to proceed and investigate this situation any further. Especially also because the dogs have now been searching for five whole days already. So John and Remy climbed through this wood "in line". Unfortunately, without success.

Finally Louise and John went to Spiterstulen to report us "out" while the rest of the group drove back to the hotel. There everything was made ready for departure. This upcoming night around 4 am and with mixed feelings we'll leave for Oslo.

Although much to our regret we have been unsuccessful in reaching our goal, the dogs deserve a big compliment. Also because of the difficult and heavy terrain, we did ask a lot from them but they have kept working really hard up to the last minute. Some of the dogs even wanted to continue searching with their paws being injured (damaged).

The mission team is due to arrive on Schiphol airport on July 9 with two separate flights:

(KLM) KL1144 at 2.15 pm and (SAS) SK823 at 2.45 pm.

Source: http://www.reddingshonden.nl/ ( "Nieuws" )